Originally by: CCP Zymurgist

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CCP Molock and GM Nythanos provide an update on Level 5 missions and EVE Online: Tyrannis.

Greetings,

When level 5 missions were first introduced back in 2007, it was intended that these missions take place only in High- and low-systems. But we changed the way missions were scaned down in this same patch and low sec emptyed out. So we in high speed back steped and moved the level 5 agents we placed in high sec one system over in low sec. But we never got around to hunting down this npc coding to stop them from giving the high sec missions in the high sec systems we first installed them in. Till Now!

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Originally by: Kerfira

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Edited by: Kerfira on 12/06/2010 22:30:33

Originally by: Dalilus

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I wonder if CCP will heed the cries of us carebears and improve PvE like when they listened to the PvPers who whined and whined, cried and posted, blogged and threatened to quit, over not getting their supercarriers, motherships or whatever they are called buffed up. After whining for weeks the PvPers got what they wanted. So let us carebears start to whine and cry and threaten to quit, keeping it up for as long as it takes, because that seems to be what CCP likes to hear.

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A paltry 17 page thread with both positive and negative comments, where the negatives are mainly on two forms:

• Wah! Give me back my easy mission ship targets!
• Wah! I don't want risk/reward to apply to ME when I gank a mission ship!

rates about this on the discontent scale: No discontent!

If you also think back to the supercap discussion, and the carrier nerf a few years back, the problem was that the solution CCP had first thought up did not solve the problem. It was not, like here, a question of people wanting to continue exploiting the same bug.

For the supercap changes, the argument was something like this: "These changes will make us not RISK our supercaps, and we WANT to RISK our supercaps!"...
This is quite a contrast the the main theme in this thread where people DON'T want risk!

For the carrier nerf a few years back, IIRC the complaint thread hit 100 pages within a day, and they were ALL negative and consistent. Again it was the same thing as for the supercaps, that the changes would have made the ship useless and not used.

Originally by: Noran Ferah

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You can launch probes, probe out, and have a warpable hit on a rattlesnake (especially one with t2 purgers or shield rigs + LSE's as a level 5 boat would be fit) in less time than a rattlesnake takes to align and warp.

Only an idiot would take a rattlesnake into a lowsec level 5 unless they controlled the system and all surrounding system.

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There are several solutions to that problem:

• Control the system and all surrounding systems
• Don't fly a rattler but use something more suitable. FYI L5's are not restricted to rattlers...

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Originally by: Seranova Farreach

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what abotu if we could get 1 guarenteed high sec L5 mission every week/fortnight so its like somethign to look forward to for small corps to have some group fun practising team play.

or for solo artists to sit alone fapping to the LP and loot+salv and tags.

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Originally by: Phoenix Torp

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Edited by: Phoenix Torp on 13/06/2010 07:10:40
Don't try to fix the actitude of CCP, they only did what was needed.
And was needed to:
1- Balance the isk-faucet, as some people say, that it's shown with this fix. It's not the definitive solution, but it's a step. They will do more in the future, sure that.

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Originally by: Kimbeau Surveryor

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Edited by: Kimbeau Surveryor on 14/06/2010 00:56:33
Edited by: Kimbeau Surveryor on 14/06/2010 00:53:48
Edited by: Kimbeau Surveryor on 14/06/2010 00:44:51
Plex doesn't really "sell" ISK. It's a mechanism to allow one player to pay for another's game time. ISK moves from the game-time receiver to the cash giver (who puts cash into CCP's pocket). No net change in the total in-game ISK.

Rip is right, then only real sources of ISK are bounties and mission rewards (edit: and stuff bought by NPCs, like tags, slaver hounds and so on). The sinks are stuff blowing up, and goods bought from NPCs (edit: and people with positive ISK balances leaving the game). No reason why all sources shouldn't be dynamically calculated to match the current rate of sink.

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Originally by: Adeena Torcfist

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Easy Fix IMO.

lock the Acceleration gates. only the mission runner, or members of his gang are allowed to enter the gate.

that only leaves jump gates, or the the Aceel. gate should someone need to warp out, & come back round to get killed.

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Originally by: Ghurthe

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Said it before and I'll say it again.

Level 5s are stupid hard and require an RR BS fleet, which any caldari mission will autowin against, or a billion isk ship. Basically this means that you can't fight caldari or gurista, so gallente and caldari get screwed.

So every other mission can RRBS, but still it's rather unfair that the pirates get a 2k DPS head start on killing everyone, as well as neutralizing ECM and tackle to kick your ass too.

So this isn't 'Carebears QQing' this is nobody feeling that a few million isk is worth the bother of being at the mercy of a very unfair fight.

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Originally by: Sandar Orontur

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So here we are, 19 pages in this thread in a short time. CCP responses to this... well ...

Those people who actually ran 5 in hi sec or wanted to get there complain. Most won't move to low sec to run / keep running lvl 5s.

Who likes the 'bug fix'? Well, if you subtract all those who are just in favor of other people earning less isk, looking forward to have more targets in low sec, etc, so all those who DON'T run 5's... then there's not many who actually are in favor of this 'fix'.

CCP...? Hello? Any thoughts? Does this thread of feedback stimulate any thinking? Will the many people who complained here get any sort of more interesting PVE content in hisec? Ah, soon(tm). I thought so....

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Originally by: MrRobot

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Edited by: MrRobot on 14/06/2010 20:19:24

Originally by: Yasuhiro Matsu****a

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One of the most important rules of economy says: Customer is always right ....

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No, I think in that case CCP has to look mainly at the well being of the game - even if that means loosing a few customers.

High sec LVL5 had the potential to change the character of EVE, more than most here realize. It is true that since a long time they wre assigned in high sec, however in great number only since Dominion. Since then, the number of completed LVL5 missions increased exponentially, and CCP hat to pull the trigger on that one. No one knows that better than myself, I've done hundreds of them.

As to LVL5 not more profitable than 4er mission: you have no idea! With two or three high skill accounts you could do LVL5 missions at least as easy as 4er (if you don't loot, you can finish most of them in 20 min). All in all, the hourly ISK reward was about 150m. This dwarfs LVL4, and I think it's by far the most profitable activity a single person could do in this game. Concerning profitability, it would criple all other activities in the long term.

TL;DR: I think CCP did the right thing. Sure, some people now need to find some other area for their fun (including me and my alts). Some may even quit. But in the end it was absolutely necessary .

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Originally by: Kerfira

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Edited by: Kerfira on 14/06/2010 21:30:45

Originally by: Chasten Ruin

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Read the numbers, most of the people live in Empire.

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Yes, which is EXACTLY the problem! They live in absolute safety, creates loads of game resources, and cause's more of them to leave the game in Higher ship losses and more ammo fired then low sec.

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Originally by: RedLion

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EVE really needs more 0.0 and low-sec entrances!

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Originally by: floater666

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This change is only good if they make risk/reward right after years of incomnpetence. It does no one favour if reward for lvl5 in low sec is so small that no one will play it.

Cut ****ing empire income half and double the low sec's already damn it. Do it with autobalancing like with the economy itself, its easy to do and the game would be just so much better. Years of ignorance attracted hello kitty online players and neglected PVP players. I myself cancelled 3 accounts 1,5 years ago as well since I saw this game becomming borring blobfest 0.0, camping PVP and mindless empire GRIND.

I am pretty sure that the original concept for EVE was that it is primarily a PVP game for gods sake.

POPULATE LOW SEC, and I AM NOT EVEN A PIRATE. Honestly only low sec has chance to offer quality, enjoyable PVP. Look arround it is completely EMPTY.

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Originally by: UFO12

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Seems we are already too boring cutomers so CCP try everything posible to kick out as much of us as possible.
What are stupied excuse to say 3 years old "bug" is "fixed" already.I am impresed whith CCP support and "wise" developers decisions. CCP how much of your team play that game as regular player and if , how much time spend for playing per week???

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Originally by: Tammarr

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Same rewards as lvl4s? Your either a poor excuse for a missionrunner or are understating hoping for: 'boohoo, its only same as 4s, please ccp give them back to me so I who know how to run them properly can harvest $$$ without any risk at all'
10 people to run a lvl5, stop smoking whatever your smoking, noone belives you. It takes 10 people to do wspace c6 sites. Are you saying regular npcs are close to sleepers? OH right, you need 10 people incase pirates come. Well, that'll make 10 wrecks then, you wont fight them, they'll come prepared for what you got. I'am going to give a piece of great advice once given me: Never PvP in your iskmaking ship.
You see pirates in intel? in local? non friendly scanprobes on scan? Align the crappers out/dockup Switch to pvp ships if your felling for a dance and tangle.

Now to go over more of the points once again raised:

risk vs reward, how difficult is it?
You cry about wanting to do 'teamwork' congratulations; incursion is coming. But!!!
5s are right there for you to start teamworking on; right now;always been; no nerf to teamwork has happened!
oh crap, this means you and buddy #1 & #2 or alt #1 #2 and #3 need to engage in diplomacy, working with the rest of your corp or heavens forbid pewpew to get a foot in and hold the area with the current locals sitting in your decided lvl5 agents system?
Heaven forbid you should be forced to gasp, report/read intel that scanneralt #1 of evil bastard corp #4 is around and that they got 3-4 guys on a gate.
God himself forbid you should have to work with others, as a team, as a corporation, as a cooalition, not a pair of guys/solo.
So whats this nerf to teamwork you cry about again and again?

Form that cooalition of missionrunners, heck start an alliance, draft up some good ideas, run some pewpew ops in frigates & cruisers just to get the hang of it; practice some fleet manouvering, shooting primary. Heaven forbid someone should have to set this up and manage it so that all of you work togheter to reap benefits in a now, safer enviroment.

The goals:
* Be able to run lvl5 missions out of X system
**Establish presence in the area
**Kick pirates that already live here out
**Dont fight them, blob them till they feel sad; we are 30 missionrunners, the pirates are 10 average
**Remember to dial whatever 0.0 alliance is in range if the pirates deploy caps, everyone loves to gank capitals.

* Establish intel channel(s)
**click channel interface, create new channel
**Add corps to allowed list
**type motd about reporting intel

* Ask around if you got 2-3 guys that can run freighters to closest highsec/jump freighter things with gear once or twice weekly, taking courier contracts to make logistics easy.

* If a roaming gang come around, all dockup for 10-15 minutes so they see nothing in space and get bored, note any potential scanner alts and add them to the red 'evil pirate scanner alts' list.

* Everyone should learn to keep their local window clearly visible.
**Do this by separating local from other chats and placing it visible.

Damn, that looks like teamwork, with lots of reward to be harvested.
Need more more ideas for teamwork? this took 10 minutes...

Quote:

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Ya all sounds good and your even right.

What you leave out is if you can do all that and have 30 pilots on to blob. Your better off in 0.0 or Null sec.

So what was your point again?



Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here.

Originally by: Sandrestal

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For those of you who are low sec pirates, you are the ones shedding tears. I keep hearing how "dead" low sec is. Whose incessant whining about not being able to scan out missions was ruining your fun? Who finally got their wish and then saw the vibrant lowsec communities move away. Stop crying for pity sake, you got the lowsec desert you wanted and nothing will induce people to live there ever again.

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Originally by: Stephanie Broadchest

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Edited by: Stephanie Broadchest on 25/11/2010 21:05:10
I want to know if CCP is going to ban all these people who just admitted they took advantage of a bug for years or even days.
They booted people who did it with the moon mining bug.
I would bet any isk that level 5 mission runners drop by 50% or more and stay that way.
The only people I know doing them now are those with motherships.
They brag they do some of the missions in 20 seconds.
They also make a billion isk for about 16 hours of work, that not fair at all.
True fact.

With this and 3-4 of the other recent changes and the one big one just announced the eve house of cards is a pile now.

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Originally by: Crimson Athena

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Edited by: Crimson Athena on 28/11/2010 20:14:06
I want to know if CCP is going to ban all these people who just admitted they took advantage of a bug for years or even days.
They booted people who did it with the moon mining bug.
I would bet any isk that level 5 mission runners drop by 50% or more and stay that way.
THE ONLY PEOPLE I KNOW DOING THEM NOW ARE THOSE WITH MOTHERSHIPS.
They brag they do some of the missions in 20 seconds.
They also make a billion isk for about 16 hours of work, that not fair at all.
True fact.

With this and 3-4 of the other recent changes and the one big one just announced the eve house of cards is a pile now.

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Originally by: Jason1138

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lol 1 fleet guarding the gate and 1 fleet running the mission?

how much money do you think 5's pay? if you even have to split them 5 ways you'd be better off soloing 4's. that's the whole issue with level 5's. they don't pay enough to be worth doing in a fleet and they're impossible to do solo because any ship that can solo them is gonna get ****d by pirates

if moving out into the "real" world of eve means getting a supercarrier and doing 5's in it then i dont' know what to tell you. that sounds ******ed to me

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Originally by: Vim

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Originally by: ILikeMarkets

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Does this mean, on the side note that they posted, that lvl 4 missions that start in highsec will be less likely to occur in lowsec or more likely to occur in lowsec? I know that currently with my two lvl 4 mission givers, out of 10 missions they will send me to low sec for at least 7 of them.

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I have this novel idea for you.
How about CCP changes all hisec agents to pay lp& mission reward as if all agents were in a 1.0 system.

OR

You move to a system with agents not bordering close to lowsec, likely giving higher rewards for being close to dangerous space.

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